Curse

Torqual · Mar 22, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Oh yes, and split the Skill Hunter title track too!

Again, this is one that SERIOUSLY should be account-based. If I get every Warrior elite with my Warrior, every Monk elite with my Monk, every Mesmer elite with my Mesmer, every Ranger elite with my Ranger, every Elementalist elite with my Elementalist (and so on for 10 classes)..... and have unlocked every elite in PvE.... why don't I get a title?

What is more reward-worthy about having a single character and capping all of these (most of which won't be used by that character anyway)?

Both of these achievements are equal but the first rewards more 'normal' gameplay but the second is just a bit unnatural. How about giving an account-based title which fits either approach? 292 caps is one hell of an achievement however you do it, and still means going to nearly every high level area of the gameworld.

lennymon · Mar 22, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Yet another post from someone who has NO idea what yer talking about.
You DON'T get titles for completeing every mission right, just for every mission AND bonus. Capping every elite *warrior* skill on your warrior is NOT above and beyond, does NOT even come close. Want free ectos next? What's 'normal gameplay'? what it means to you is obviously subjective, but the point is that (by design) you don't get titles for normal gameplay, but for extraordinary acchievements. I've got all elites on one character, you obviously don't, I did it before the titles existed, and I've maintained it. It's the first thing I do when a new chapter comes out. Some folks are into mapping (I do that too... but the elites are first). For what it's worth I'm also about 85% done with ALL skills on my Ranger...
When folks suggest that they get a title for doing Jack all, it's ignorant and lazy. I dont care if you do get a title for it because if you do its meaningless. A title only means something to the person holding it and *only* then if they put some effort into it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

Oh yes, and split the Skill Hunter title track too!

Again, this is one that SERIOUSLY should be account-based. If I get every Warrior elite with my Warrior, every Monk elite with my Monk, every Mesmer elite with my Mesmer, every Ranger elite with my Ranger, every Elementalist elite with my Elementalist (and so on for 10 classes)..... and have unlocked every elite in PvE.... why don't I get a title?

What is more reward-worthy about having a single character and capping all of these (most of which won't be used by that character anyway)?

Both of these achievements are equal but the first rewards more 'normal' gameplay but the second is just a bit unnatural. How about giving an account-based title which fits either approach? 292 caps is one hell of an achievement however you do it, and still means going to nearly every high level area of the gameworld.

Torqual · Mar 22, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Yet another post from someone who has NO idea what yer talking about.
You DON'T get titles for completeing every mission right, just for every mission AND bonus. Capping every elite *warrior* skill on your warrior is NOT above and beyond, does NOT even come close. Want free ectos next? What's 'normal gameplay'? what it means to you is obviously subjective, but the point is that (by design) you don't get titles for normal gameplay, but for extraordinary acchievements.

That's really unnecessary hostility and flaming. How on earth do you reach the conclusion I have no idea what I am talking about. Does my post look like the post of someone that does not know what they are talking about? It's fine to disagree with someone, but why be such an abusive idiot about it? Try using proper sentences, too.

You have not read my post properly. I am saying that the achievements of capturing 292 different elites using *several* characters or *one* character are equivalent, but only one is rewarded with a title because it is character-based rather than account-based. There are plenty of account-based titles already, so the suggestion to make Skill Hunter account-based is hardly idiotic is it? Especially when the skills are unlocked at account level?

Try engaging your brain before attacking next time. I am not suggesting that someone who only unlocks the elite skills of ONE class should get a title. That is what you are implying that I mean and then attacking it in a dumb way.

lennymon · Mar 22, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

It's not equivalent, it's normal gameplay to get all elites for your primary profession in my opinion. I'm not attacking you so you don't neeed to defend yourself by attempting to launch invalid attacks on my reading comprehension.
The idea is ridiculous, Im sorry but it is.
You compare pvp titles also, this is a lemon (your skill title is an apple, get it). The pvp title absolutely need to be account based if you actually think about it. Since you may need a new pvp character all the time.
I am not implying only unlocking warrior titles my defensively infertile friend, but say you have one of each character and unlock the primary class only on each one. I have one of each character and capped all on one character. Meaning I've put extraordinary effort into something which with vastly diminishing returns makes my character more accomplished than someone who hasn't done this, hence the title.
I'm sorry you feel I'm attacking you, but regardless you're wrong.

Regardless, what does this have to do with hard mode, sunspear or lightbringer titles anyways?

Torqual · Mar 22, 2007, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Good idea editing your first post - you did come across as a bit of a griefer. One day you may learn that other people are entitled to beliefs different than yours and these 'opinions' as we call them are not automatically ridiculous or wrong because they are not the same as yours. I look forward to this day.

For your information I have a character with about 180 elites on and am working towards the full set just like you. I also hold maxed mapping and Protector titles just like you.

I thought I made a reasonable point about account-based titles allowing more use of multiple characters rather than many hours on a single character/single build.

Next time, why not just say "I disagree", like civilized people do, and then you don't come out of it looking like a pompous wind bag.

Have a nice day.

lennymon · Mar 22, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I wont even respond to your editing comment given the time stamps...
you are entitled to your opinions, as am I, and I stated mine: your argument is weak and wrong in my opinion.
Instead of attacking me (name calling) try coming up with an actually valid argument.

Chronos the Defiler · Mar 22, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Regardless, what does this have to do with hard mode, sunspear or lightbringer titles anyways?

Exactly, you two have done a great job hijacking a perfectly informative thread with your inconsequential squabbling. Keep it to private messages if you have a moral obligation to disagree with eachothers opinions.

I am quite looking forward to Hard Mode, it will give everyone a great chance to replay low level areas they want to, yet with a challenge that would better suit their needs. I end up returning to the Northern Shiverpeaks with my Assassin mainly because I like exploring the area, even with a maxed explorer title, but find the trip rather unexciting, so this sounds like it would most definately solve this issue for me

SaucE · Mar 22, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Hard Mode + DoA = QQ

Everything Else = w00t! Can't wait!

Cinders · Mar 22, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrD

You heard her it's gonna be out THIS MONTH!

Uhm, no. But hopefully within four weeks of when she posted. Don't expect this next week.

Torqual · Mar 22, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chronos the Defiler

Exactly, you two have done a great job hijacking a perfectly informative thread with your inconsequential squabbling. Keep it to private messages if you have a moral obligation to disagree with eachothers opinions.

Thanks for telling me off; you're a hero. Why not follow your own advice and send me a private message instead of showing off?

Actually my two posts were perfectly on topic as they responded to several points made in the thread immediately before, about possibly losing Maxed titles. So what if I wanted to make some related points about other titles.

Rene Saliere · Mar 22, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I earned all three Protector titles too, and I'd much rather them be multi-tier. Protector x 3 are by far the easiest titles to max--they really should be brought in line with the rest.

Compared to what? the farming Titles? Drunken, Sweet Tooth, Treasure, Wisdom? LOL.

Look, I like the idea of Hard Mode, but the Hard Mode applied to timed Missions and late game Missions is going to place Guardian as a much more difficult achievement than any other Title. As a new Title track? Fine! As an unmaxing of Protector? No...

I disagree with unmaxing Protector Titles because:

a) They are not comparable to other Titles because most other Titles involve nothing but farming* (or trading if you're smart, or Ebay if you're a cheat).

b) Repeating them ad nauseam to regain something you already had is not a thrilling prospect, particularly when it is a substitute for placing truly new content.

c) Moving the goalposts on achievement based Titles is simply unethical and mean-minded.

* eg: If you're looking for a good player in PvE, what's more important to you - farming ability or Mission completion ability? If you say farming ability, I know you're just trolling.

NB: I have FoW armour too, so I know what farming is.

Diddy bow · Mar 22, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

sweet
.
.

Kakumei · Mar 23, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

b) Repeating them ad nauseam to regain something you already had is not a thrilling prospect, particularly when it is a substitute for placing truly new content.

I don't expect you to agree, nor do I expect to change your mind. I do think the reason quoted above is the primary argument against changing them, though--people do not generally want to "lose" their achievements.

Honestly, though, they ARE the easiest to max, at current. It is a quicker prospect to complete all the missions than it is to farm up enough cash to buy however many Red Bean Cakes you'd need, or hug all of the walls, or find ten thousand gold items, or stand on rings for however long.

I personally like the idea of titles in general becoming more difficult to actually max--it's not a big deal to see someone with KOABD anymore, because you know they're just triple Prot and dual Cartographer. "Sure", you say, "there's People Know Me for that" and yes, there is, but that's not my point. Especially if they add three new titles, so you can be triple Prot and triple Guardian--and, if they ever actually do it, triple Skill Hunter--you'll see quite a few new PKM running around. It's disheartening, and it's all purely my opinion--I can see why people would like to have an easy six--or nine--titles.

Rene Saliere · Mar 23, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Honestly, though, they ARE the easiest to max, at current. It is a quicker prospect to complete all the missions than it is to farm up enough cash to buy however many Red Bean Cakes you'd need, or hug all of the walls, or find ten thousand gold items, or stand on rings for however long.

Something being time consuming doesn't make it harder. It just makes it take a long time. If you are confused by this, I recommend reading a biography of Albert Einstein.

Quote:

I personally like the idea of titles in general becoming more difficult to actually max--it's not a big deal to see someone with KOABD anymore,

I don't see that many KOABD's around. I sure do see a lot of Drunks in FoW though. Can we say... Ebay? But I wonder whether any level of difficulty would be difficult enough for you? I suspect the solution for you lies in the realm of psychoanalysis.

Quote:

because you know they're just triple Prot and dual Cartographer.

Aw, you're cute when you get angry. In point of fact, Explorer and Protector Titles are two of the very few Titles that I have much respect for, given that they involve playing a variety of builds and utilising a variety of tactics in a variety of locations. I guess that's why I chose them, and spent my farming/grinding time on other toys instead.

PS: I know, I know, you're just trolling. But I think in your heart of hearts you need the stimulus, so there you go.

Torqual · Mar 23, 2007, 11:07 AM // 11:07

It's true that every KOABD I have seen is a 3x Protector, 2x Cartographer. What other way is there to do it? But we talk as if these titles are easy?

Sure, Protector got a lot more achievable with the introduction of heroes - and this also helps reaching difficult areas in Cartographer (as Henchmen were rubbish, and what humans wanted to come with you anyway..). But there is still a considerable amount of time and skill required to get all three titles - especially Elona.

Having got my 100% Tyria and now scraping my last few % on Cantha, I wonder whether the people who are calling this 'easy' have done it themselves.

A lot of people speak as if KOABD should be restricted to the elite of the elite, there's this attitude of 'we don't want everyone running round with it'. I think this is probably the few people that have achieved it that are saying this the loudest. It's clear that A-Net want to target people on 10 and 15 titles, and don't think the world should end at 5. In my long and sometimes off-topic post above I suggested certain fair ways that they could make it possible to achieve more maxed titles without breaching the EULA and buying gold.

The whole thing about titles is that you can only display one at a time. So what incentive is there to keep maxing different titles? Well, this is why we have the maxed titles track. This issue of the maxed titles track and the max-a-bility of titles is a crucial issue for the longevity of the game. And since we aren't getting more campaigns and it's two years until we get GW2 then maxing titles is what people are going to be doing for the next two years. The balancing of this is a key issue and, as we can see, there are major changes around the corner - with new titles and more 'maxability'.

Great - A-Net is doing the right things with these developments. I think we're going to see plenty more KOABD's running around. This is not a bad thing. And before anyone else launches at me saying I propose easy titles for easy achievements, actually I am just the same as the rest of you in that I've collected a set of maxed titles the hard way, including Legendary Survivor which was not farmed for me and I got by doing missions and capping.

To re-iterate the points that would make the pursuit of maxed titles better:

1) More account level PvE titles > most people don't want to spend the next two years playing one character all the time.

2) Making Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Sweet Tooth, Drunkard maxable without breaching the EULA and buying gold.

3) Not taking away any titles that people already have.

If people want to attack what I am saying, then presumably they think two years of grinding with a single character is a good thing, and that people who buy titles by breaching the EULA is a good thing, or that people should have achievements stripped.

Kakumei · Mar 23, 2007, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Oh, are we going to do the line-by-line game? That's a fun one. It doesn't get played enough on this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

Something being time consuming doesn't make it harder. It just makes it take a long time. If you are confused by this, I recommend reading a biography of Albert Einstein.

But triple Prot is easy. Perhaps I suck at farming (or trading or what have you) but when I looked at the list of titles, deciding which I wanted to pursue, Protector looked to be the easiest by far--and this turned out to be very, very true. Many of the missions take only a tiny investment of time to Master, and while there are a few tougher ones (Prophecies missions with annoying bonuses spring to mind, like Dunes of Despair), they're few and far-between enough to keep the difficulty of Prot x 3 dismally low.

Quote:

I don't see that many KOABD's around. I sure do see a lot of Drunks in FoW though. Can we say... Ebay? But I wonder whether any level of difficulty would be difficult enough for you? I suspect the solution for you lies in the realm of psychoanalysis.

Well, PvE in general is easy. This isn't really something to dispute, and I certainly hope the impending Hard Mode does something to rectify this.

Is the current level of difficulty enough for me? No. I want it harder. I want a challenge beyond "c+space", which alone can pretty much hit Master's on any mission.

Quote:

Aw, you're cute when you get angry.

I love when people try to pretend they know the emotions of other posters. It's cute.

Quote:

In point of fact, Explorer and Protector Titles are two of the very few Titles that I have much respect for, given that they involve playing a variety of builds and utilising a variety of tactics in a variety of locations.

"C+Space" is a variety of tactics? Huh.

Quote:

PS: I know, I know, you're just trolling. But I think in your heart of hearts you need the stimulus, so there you go.

Not trolling. While I am (or was) pretty well known for exactly that around here, I do think I've toned down.

And in this particular scenario, I truly believe Prot should be multi-tier. It's not going to be, so this is pretty moot, but oh well.

Tric · Mar 23, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Sounds good, I hope now that AoE spells will actually have some use again in PvE. Ever since the "run away" update, AoE spells have been COMPLETELY useless in PvE. Other than for making stuff run away. And seriously, why would we want that? We want to kill, not chase.

bobrath · Mar 23, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I believe (know?) that if anyone is working on their GMCs, then protector pretty much ends up happening as a byproduct. Is Protector an "easier" title? Sure I suppose so, but then so is sitting in town double-clicking on red bean cakes.

Is KOABD too easy to get to? perhaps, but then I'd argue that Survivor, Explorer, and Charmed (to name a few) are also "too easy" to get. Heck most folks get Explorer just by playing through the storyline. Just because the first tier of a title is easy to attain, it shouldn't devalue the concept. No one knows (yet) what the max max-title title is. I will say that just as I honor a MC more then a pathfinder but not as much as a GMC - the same would apply to the current Max titles. If there are "too many" KOABD running around so what? Think about how many protectors, trailblazers, skillz, and wretched folks we see.

Hard Mode adding more title levels? Great.

lennymon · Mar 23, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Well said, and well laid out. When you get right down to it, all the titles can be argued to be 'too easy' but both the argument and the comparisons (to what?) are kinda pointless. The titles aren't for status, because as can be pointed out in countless threads, not many really care what title you wear. With the exception of the titles which have an effect, the only thing titles do is give the owner a feeling of completion and personal acchievement. More titles are cool but to be honest do we really need more? Splitting up the ones we already have, meh whatever... the ONLY reason that folks want this is if they dont own all 3 chapters (and why not ;P...go get em) or they are too lazy to get KOABD the 'hard way' *opinion alert your's may vary*.
The incomplete grade goes to Anet on the sunspear title track, but presumably this'll be fixed shortly after a mere 5 months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

I believe (know?) that if anyone is working on their GMCs, then protector pretty much ends up happening as a byproduct. Is Protector an "easier" title? Sure I suppose so, but then so is sitting in town double-clicking on red bean cakes.

Is KOABD too easy to get to? perhaps, but then I'd argue that Survivor, Explorer, and Charmed (to name a few) are also "too easy" to get. Heck most folks get Explorer just by playing through the storyline. Just because the first tier of a title is easy to attain, it shouldn't devalue the concept. No one knows (yet) what the max max-title title is. I will say that just as I honor a MC more then a pathfinder but not as much as a GMC - the same would apply to the current Max titles. If there are "too many" KOABD running around so what? Think about how many protectors, trailblazers, skillz, and wretched folks we see.

Hard Mode adding more title levels? Great.

Ashantara · Mar 24, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

@ Gaile Gray + ArenaNet:

I find most of what you've done with Factions and Nightfall difficult enough. It really needed a lot of getting used to at first after what one had experienced before in Prophecies.

To add even more pseudo-"challenges" to the game by giving it another extra edge of difficulty is sheer insane... and completely unneccessary (unless you only want to please those loot-crazy kids who need to boost their ego by being able to say: "I killed Mr. Uber-Boss!")

What's next? Making GW:EN or GW2 so hard that only kids with sensational reaction timing and nothing else to do with their time other than increasing their GW fighting skills will be able to get through the game without dying every 30 seconds?

(Okay, I am a bit exaggerating here, but you get my point.)

You guys really should invest some thought on innovative ideas that actually aren't all that new, but would make the game more interesting indeed: Like inventing quests that consist of something other than killing stuff or running from A to B to C and back again.

How about assassinating someone in their house for a change?

Or having to actually avoid enemies in an area in order to succeed with a quest or mission? And what the heck happened to lovely quests à la lighting the candles in the catacombs?

Honestly, I'll be quite sad if all the changes I hope for will not occur in GW2, because the way it is now (fighting, fighting, and even more fighting, with increasing levels of difficulty to succeed) it's quite boring after a while.

I'm relatively good at tactically fighting my way through groups of enemies without getting killed, but still, if that's all you can come up with, it's a real shame. Why? Because the engine, the graphical quality and detail, and your enthusiasm for the game prove one thing: You are capable of so much more, ArenaNet!

Make it happen!

(And stop including annoying "innovations" like this one, because mature players want more to do than fight their way through maps and loot away all day long.

)

P.S.: Did I mention how much the news about GW2 pleased me? I can't wait for the beta!!